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CLASSICS-L  February 2006, Week 1

CLASSICS-L February 2006, Week 1

Subject:

Re: definitive Classical Greek Grammar

From:

Helma Dik <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Classical Greek and Latin Discussion Group <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 1 Feb 2006 13:42:29 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (80 lines)

Ah!
Now I see. You're quoting from my earlier message.

> Well, maybe I should start with, what is meant
> by "the sentence is not the highest relevant unit of analysis?"

The context of a sentence helps determine its form. A simple example:  
a subject can be left implicit; it can also be expressed by means of  
an array of anaphoric pronouns; and it can also be expressed by means  
of a full noun phrase.

Now say we are confronted with houtos (οὗτος: this/that  
masculine entity; 'he'; 'this man') as a subject. If we only  
considered the sentence in isolation, we could do no more than say:  
Subject expression by means of houtos is grammatical. Only when  
context is taken into account, can one give an adequate description  
(i.e., a set of rules) for when this particular pronoun is used. Such  
rules would the notion 'chain-second': one important use of houtos is  
immediately upon introduction of a new entity in the narrative.

Too silly for words? Well, compare the claim that, no doubt because  
Sophocles is a great poet, he can refer to Ajax (or anyone else) with  
hode, houtos and (e)keinos, and that therefore these three pronouns  
clearly 'mean the same thing'.

Only after arriving at a proper understanding of the alternative  
forms of reference can we go back to Sophocles and consider what is  
'meant' in a particular instance. This does not deny S. literary  
status, but we need to understand the framework he is working within  
- or stretching to its limits, as the case may be.

> And later,
> "Ironically, 'New Testament'/Koine Greek is in better shape: in  
> that field,
> the word is still pretty central to people's concerns?"

I apologize for trying to be succinct and ending up cryptic:

In the area of Koine Greek, there *is* more activity than in  
classical Greek linguistics, and I would hypothesize that this is  
because The Word, i.e., the NT as a text, actually matters a lot to  
people (to the point that they worry about the presence or absence of  
definite articles, for instance). These scholars to some extent stay  
current with general linguistics, so that they do in fact show  
awareness of grammar beyond the sentence level.

> When I think about "a definitive Greek grammar" and wish I had one,  
> I'm
> thinking about such problems as, "OK, I'm looking a a sentence where a
> simple negation (ou) is one heck of a long way away from various  
> things I
> could plausibly argue it could be negating; what can somebody tell  
> me about
> how negations regularly hook onto other words or sentence parts so  
> that I
> can see if there is a definitive answer to what's going on in this
> sentence?" Is this in the same field of effort or concern?

Yes. A grammar should have a section on negation, which should treat  
such questions. In general, it would say that ou typically has  
'scope' over what immediately follows, but there are interesting  
subrules.
In addition, it would be helpful to English speakers at an  
intermediate level if such a grammar showed the impossibility of  
leaving Greek clause structure intact when a negative (or an  
interrogative) is in a dependent clause -- this is where English  
prefers to say, It was not because ... that he did that, as opposed  
to the awkward "He did that not because.." [Interrogative: What  
thinking did you do that --> What were you thinking when you/that you..]
Ideally such a grammar should also discuss under what circumstances  
negative concord (multiple negatives) occurs, but nobody so far has  
really done that.

>  Is there a text
> that will reliably do that for me--preferably in English?

No. Or at least, so I would argue.

Helma Dik
  

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