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CLASSICS-L  February 2006, Week 1

CLASSICS-L February 2006, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Euripidean child masters (Alcestis 304)

From:

Helma Dik <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Classical Greek and Latin Discussion Group <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:23:28 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (87 lines)

>
> I think the interpretation that Alcestis is worried about future  
> children
> disrupting her own children's inheritance is correct. It nags at me  
> that
> the text does not seem to me to be explicitly proleptic, but  
> perhaps the
> idea would be clearer to a native speaker, for whom the complete
> impossibility of a child being master over a father would be so  
> obvious
> that only the intended idea would come to mind. I suppose to render  
> the
> idea clearly (though literally) in English, one would turn to  
> something
> like "Ensure that these my children will be masters of my house" even
> though there's nothing in the text to actually give you the "will  
> be" or
> the double "my," and I don't know that anaskhou can really be rendered
> properly as "ensure." Or maybe I'm just being very stupid, which  
> certainly
> happens often enough.
>

A small friendly amendment.

Slightly more literally, _tolerate_ (<hold yourself up while  
experiencing..) them as masters of my house.

For examples see LSJ sv anexw, C II --as often the frequent,  
idiomatic meaning is relegated to late in the lemma.

Alcestis' request is for a non-action, for letting things be, after  
she dies, instead of entering a new marriage, with all the risks that  
entails for the children from this first marriage. The positive  
formulation is followed by the negative formulation kai m 'pigmis..
==
Roisman & Luschnig ad loc. say "_take upon oneself_, that is _assume  
the responsibility_"
This seems 1) totally unwarranted, and 2) fails to address how  
despotas should be understood on their reading of anasxou.
If this was raised before, I apologize. I didn't pay attention to  
this thread earlier.

==
> If anybody wants to comment further on the text, here's the context:
>
> Alcestis 300 - 307
>
> aitsomai gar s' axian men oupote
> psukhs gar ouden esti timiteron
> dikaia d', hs phseis su tousde gar phileis
> oukh hsson  'g paidas eiper eu phroneis
> toutous anaskhou despotas emn domn
> kai m 'pigmis toisde mtruian teknois
> htis kakin ous' emou gun phthoni
> tois soisi kamois paisi kheira prosbalei.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	James L. P. Butrica [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent:	Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:32 AM
> To:	[log in to unmask]
> Subject:	Re: [CLASSICS-L] Euripidean child masters (Alcestis 304)
>
> Quoting Bob Bethune <[log in to unmask]>:
>
>> Euripides Alcestis 304:
>>
>> toutous anaskhou despotas emn domn
>>
>> How should one understand despotas in this line? Alcestis says it to
>>
>
> Could she be speaking proleptically: i.e., "so that they can one  
> day be
> masters"?
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date:  
> 2/2/2006
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date:  
> 2/2/2006

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